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<body><div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">Okay, funny. :) Just speaking to this issue: why wouldn't someone without access to the web not use a "cheap-looking" PC when they need to? I'm assuming that they have no other options. I think most people see a monitor, mouse and keyboard, and that's a "desktop computer". I mean, if they have access to a better "looking" computer, then they can use that, right?</div>
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<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">Also, I'm sure that we are smart and creative enough to come up with some kind of expensive-izing shell for the Pis. Perhaps wrapping the Pi + case in a Dolce and Gabanna gift box? Or put a BMW symbol on it? Or "Cadillac Escalade Pi"? haha<br></div>
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<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">One question: Do we (Partimus) have zero costs associated with the way things are right now? That makes a difference in terms of recommendations I'd make. $0 vs. $50 is significant! :)<br></div>
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<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">Cheers,<br></div>
<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">Jesse Adelman</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>----- Original message -----<br></div>
<div>From: Christian Einfeldt <<a href="mailto:einfeldt@gmail.com">einfeldt@gmail.com</a>><br></div>
<div>To: <a href="mailto:jesse@boldandbusted.com">jesse@boldandbusted.com</a><br></div>
<div>Cc: Tech <<a href="mailto:tech@lists.partimus.org">tech@lists.partimus.org</a>><br></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Partimus & Raspberry Pi 3 Model Bs<br></div>
<div>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 19:34:02 -0700<br></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">Here is another reference to the muffin stumps episode on Seinfeld:<br></div>
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<div><a href="http://yadayadayadaecon.com/clip/86/">http://yadayadayadaecon.com/clip/86/</a><br></div>
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<div defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 7:29 PM, Christian Einfeldt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:einfeldt@gmail.com">einfeldt@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">Hi Jesse,<br></div>
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<div>Thanks for your ideas! I am replying in line below. Please scroll down for my replies...<br></div>
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<div defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;"><span>On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 5:34 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jesse@boldandbusted.com">jesse@boldandbusted.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></span></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><span>Hey Christian & Partimus folks,<br><br></span><span> You have a lot of giant old computers stored at various spots.</span></blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>Why do you think that we have machines stored at various spots. As far as I know, we currently are storing stuff only in the basement of the Crosby. Did you think we had another location?<br></div>
<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;"><span></span><br></div>
<div> <br></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><span><br>I propose that we put a bit of money on the table, and replace all the<br> computers, and their power-hungry motherboards, with Raspberry Pi 3s,<br> and have a steady reserve of 3 or 4 to replace the Pis taken out for<br> maintenance, or stolen, or otherwise destroyed. There are some issues to<br> consider, however.<br> <br> * How do we secure computers that are as small as two decks of cards?</span></blockquote><div><span></span><br></div>
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<div>That is a key issue, given that we are in shelters where theft is a concern. It is much easier to conceal a Raspberry Pi than a desktop. In our current deployments, a bit of size is actually an advantage.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;"><span></span><br></div>
<div> <br></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><span>* How do we keep them up-to-date?</span><br></blockquote><div><span></span><br></div>
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<div>I manually go to each location and update them. This is actually a bit of an issue, give that we are at 6 locations with 12 machines.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;"><span></span><br></div>
<div> <br></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><span>* Do these offer more or less flexibility for future projects than the<br> 'traditional' desktop PCs we've used?</span></blockquote><div><span></span><br></div>
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<div>I think that every FOSS fan loves the idea of Raspberry Pi machines. They are small, innovative, and both the hardware and the software is open source. But I am struggling to see a use case for our current deployments with ECS. In the future, we might be able to discuss with the ECS management about getting Raspberry Pi machines in the rooms. But my concern with Raspberry Pis is that they could be perceived as muffin stumps:<br></div>
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<div><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Muffin_Tops#Top_of_the_Muffin_to_You.21">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>The_Muffin_Tops#Top_of_the_<wbr>Muffin_to_You.21</a><br></div>
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<div>Essentially, the poor are actually very brand conscious, and they don't like to be given low power stuff. I have been giving away FOSS machines since 2004, and in my experience, one of the challenges with free software and is that people in our society have been brainwashed to think that if it is free, it must be crap, and so they reject and feel insulted that you tried to give them what they perceive as muffin stumps. My concern with Raspberry PIs is that they are low power machines that would be viewed as muffin stumps. Innovator and hacker like us on this list see the value in Raspberry PIs, but I am concerned that the residents of the low income shelters would see them as muffin stumps.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;"><span></span><br></div>
<div> <br></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><span><br>There is a monetary cost involved (unless we score a donation of<br> equipment). While the Pis are about $35, the case is another $12-25. An<br> outlet-sized usb-equipped surge suppressor is another $8-$12. Any<br> monitor will have to support HDMI inputs, or be compatible with an HDMI<br> converter of some sort.</span></blockquote><div><span></span><br></div>
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<div>You have touched on an important issue here. I am concerned that given our limited resources, spending on Raspberry PIs are farther down the priority at this time. We still need to look at D & O insurance, for example.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;"><span></span><br></div>
<div> <br></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><span><br>I think that the drastically reduced space used, the lack of fans, and<br> easy swap-in replacement (without carting giant PCs across some of the<br> most dangerous intersections and streets of the City), seems like a good<br> idea.</span></blockquote><div><span></span><br></div>
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<div>This is a good point.<br></div>
<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;"><span></span><br></div>
<div> <br></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;" defang_data-gmailquote="yes"><span><br>Also, Lubuntu is apparently available specifically for the R Pi 3,<br> should we want to stick with that for the "guest" lockdown features:<br> <br> <a href="https://ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker.org/blog/ubuntu-pi-flavours-for-raspberry-pi-3/">https://ubuntu-pi-flavour-make<wbr>r.org/blog/ubuntu-pi-flavours-<wbr>for-raspberry-pi-3/</a><br> <br> I believe it will be easier to roll out upgrades via the microSD cards<br> the Pi 3 uses, rather than having to custom partition random drives in<br> random branded computers. Standardization can help us knock out problems<br> across the fleet more quickly and with greater assurance of the<br> 'stickyness' of the fixes. Since I would need to do a new rollout of a<br> "base image" with the logging, alerting, and configuration management<br> setup, I figured this would be a good time to make this sort of move.<br> <br> I'm travelling to Mexico City for two weeks starting Monday. I'd like to<br> know what you-all think! :) Is this feasible? Are there dealbreakers? Is<br> this appropriate for the environments we're in?</span></blockquote><div><span></span><br></div>
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<div>Issues are discussed above.<br></div>
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<div>I hope you enjoy your time in Mexico City! I will be leaving for Europe about the time that you come back, with limited access to the Internet. <br></div>
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<div>Thanks for the ideas, Jesse! <br></div>
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<div style="font-family:menlo, consolas, monospace;">-- <br></div>
<div>Christian Einfeldt<br></div>
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