[Tech] Partimus / PXE unattended install solution

jim jim at well.com
Mon Mar 23 13:13:20 PDT 2015


jim is lurking and attentive.


On 03/23/2015 07:34 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> Hi Tai,
>
> thanks for your great work !  Also, I am cc'ing everyone, because I am 
> not sure who is on the tech list, and Lyz has sent in a trouble ticket 
> to Dream Host, because it has not been archiving the tech list.  I 
> will send an email to the tech list asking everyone to put up their 
> hands if they can see the emails coming through to that list.  Thanks!
>
> My comments are in line below.
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Tai Kedzierski <dch.tai at gmail.com 
> <mailto:dch.tai at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi all,
>
>     Some notes of what I've done, and a request for advice, as well as
>     suggestions for Abigail. Please feel free to disagree and improve!
>
>
>
>     === ISO Customization
>
>     I had a go at the ISO customization task over the week-end.
>     Unfortunately the instructions are old, and oscillate between
>     helpful and omissive... My resulting ISO caused kernal panic
>     before even loading boot, but I think I know where to look to
>     troubleshoot that...
>
>
>     I've started constructing a bash script to automate as much of it
>     as I can (it's also a good way to re-verify knowledge ;-)  )
>
>     For the technically inclined, you can find that script here
>     https://github.com/taikedz/handy-scripts/blob/master/in-progress/customiso/autobuild.sh
>
>     Sporadic notes start at line 111 , actual steps start at line 167.
>     It is incomplete.
>
>
> May I share that link with Charlie Reisinger?  He said that he would 
> try to reach one of his tech gurus to see if they might be willing to 
> help us out, and maybe that guru would be able to offer you some 
> additional insight as you have requested below.
>
>
>
>
>     === PXE Server / machine boot (help needed?)
>
>     I also tried setting up a server to centrally serve ISO images
>     over PXE with a tftp server. Again, shaky tutorials abound, no
>     end-to-end solution. I had troubles with (I think) setting up an
>     internal DNS and having my VMs start there (VirtualBox does not
>     have any "BIOS" settings as far as I've so far seen)
>
>     If I can get this much fixed, I can put together a comprehensive
>     guide on setting up the PXE component with better documentation
>     and caveat highlighting.
>
>     A lot of it requires manual work so cannot be so easily automated
>     unless I prepare a template, and even then may depend on the
>     target network infrastructure.
>
>     **Is there anyone who could offer guidance on setting up BIOS /
>     etc so that a machine can be specifically pointed in BIOS to the
>     PXE server?
>
>
> I am continuing to do outreach to try to build up a community of 
> people who might be able to help you out, including Charlie Reisinger 
> and others.
>
>     I am testing on VirtualBox, but I suspect many real machines also
>     just look for the network's default DNS server... over which I
>     have little control in fact, and the teachers may hit a similar
>     problem...
>
>     Alternatively, I might need to put together a PXE booting CD which
>     has the presets loaded into it (similar to what I saw at the Uni
>     but not sure...) which would be able to allow us to do away with
>     having to even set up a local DNS server
>
>
>
>     === Software requirements
>
>     Pulling from Abigail's list, these divide fairly nicely into two
>     categories:
>
>     /==
>     *I am currently running:* (productivity)
>     Google docs
>     GIMP *
>     Blue Fish editor (html)
>     Firefox
>     Chrome (which crashes a lot and needs to get removed)
>
>     *It would be great to have:* (media production)
>     3d  modeling software
>     video editing software
>     sound editing software
>     drawing software
>     ==/
>
>     Productivity - these can be added as standard to the Lubuntu
>     machine. GIMP may be a bit heavy for the older machines, and I
>     might suggest moving it into the media category. If only light
>     image editing needs doing, I can suggest gPaint which is more like
>     MS Paint in terms of features and lightness.
>
>     Can I suggest adding LibreOffice as well?
>
>
> These are elementary students that are using these machines, and so I 
> am thinking that the lighter weight editing tools that come standard 
> with Lubuntu might be adequate for that.  I use Libre Office myself 
> personally, but I find it to be very heavy weight.  I think that 
> Lubuntu comes with AbiWord preinstalled, doesn't it?  I think AbiWord 
> is also much lighter weight than Libre Office
>
>     It follows the goal of FOSS and works fine offline too. Also uses
>     open document standards. A good habit to instill in students once
>     they move on to using their own computers.
>
>
> I think that AbiWord uses open document standards and is completely 
> free as in freedom.
>
>
>
>     Media Production - Machines { 8, 19, 12 } from your spreadsheet
>     could house and handle media production suites, I'd be wary of
>     putting it on the standard install. Once I get the customization
>     procedure down, it should be easy enough to produce a second,
>     media-oriented ISO.
>
>
> We are going to be delivering 15 additional machines to Abigail on 
> Wednesday, March 25.  That will be the first step in replacing some of 
> the older, slower machines. Slow machines are the bane of my 
> existence, because we are essentially establishing negative branding 
> with old machines ("FOSS doesn't work"), when actually FOSS works much 
> better on those older, slower machines; however, students and teachers 
> just conclude if it is free as in free beer, then it must be junk.  So 
> I am going to emphasize a search for better machines.
>
>
>     As my mantra goes, it depends on the workflow and activity goals
>     what we'll be choosing in terms of specific software. I can
>     suggest Abigail have a look at the below list and see what meets
>     her or he r tutors' needs.
>
>
>     _3d modelling_ - *Blender* seems to be the preferred software for
>     3d animation. The Free video "Big Buck Bunny" was created using
>     Blender as a demo of what it can achieve - plays with the quality
>     of a Pixar short!
>
>
> I agree, let's add Blender.
>
>
>     For modelling-only, here's some other ones
>     http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/08/5-open-source-3d-modelling-rendering.html
>
>     _Video editing_ - funnily enough, *Blender* has also been
>     recommended for this task on numerous reviews. Otherwise
>     *OpenShot* and *pitivi* suites are good alternatives, though this
>     is not my area of expertise.
>
>
> I think that OpenShot is becoming a standard for FOSS video editing, 
> so let's go with that, IMHO.
>
>
>     _Sound editing_ - for sound /editing/ *Audacity* is a good choice.
>     For /music production/ a heftier suite is called for. Perhaps *LMMS*?
>
>
> Audacity is adequate, and has a simpler GUI, which will be better for 
> the elementary school kids she is teaching
>
>
>     _"Drawing" software_ - What's the use case? There are many
>     categories of "drawing" software - vector drawing (more suited to
>     graphical design and logo creation) can be done with *InkScape*
>     (proprietary equivalent is Adobe Illustrator); digital painting is
>     well served by *Krita* (proprietary equivalent... none really.
>     Manga Studio perhaps). *GIMP* also can serve this purpose but is
>     more geared towards photo-manipulation.
>
>
> Yea, Krita is very good.  Let's give them both GIMP and Krita.  Krita 
> is easier to use, but GIMP is more powerful.
>
>
>     My own photographic workflow makes use of digiKam and GIMP (I used
>     to use Adobe Lightroom and PhotoShop; I'm finding I don't need
>     them anymore and am now free of Apple!)
>
>
>     For a full creativity set, I could aslo suggest adding *Scribus*
>     to the standard set for desktop publishing & professional layout
>     preparation (equivalent proprietary is Adobe InDesign)
>
>
> Okay, let's try Scribus.
>
>
>     /
>     /
>     /--- A note on creativity/media production distros:/
>
>     Whilst Lubuntu will be perfectly fine for most productivity and
>     study tasks, you may want to consider a different distro for media.
>
>     I could suggest Abigail have a look at "*Ubuntu Studio*", a full
>     media production suite distro. Only customization that would be
>     needed would be to make it Unattended Install.
>     http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntustudio
>
>     ArtistX is another distro worth a look. This too is based on
>     Ubuntu, and again, the same Unattended customization should need
>     doing. http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=artistx
>
>
> My concern with these other two distros is that they will come with a 
> heavy desktop, such as Unity.  Until we get her better hardware, it 
> seems to me that staying with Lubuntu is a good idea.
>
>
>
>     That's me until next week-end :-)
>
>
> Thank you so much for your work, Tai !!!  Please let me know if I can 
> tweet your github code, as I am going to try to find other people who 
> might be able to help you out! Thanks!
>
>
>     Tai
>
>
>
>
>     ===
>     Tai Kedzierski
>
>     IT Services Specialist
>     http://helpuse.com
>     +44 (0) 7526 963 612 <tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207526%20963%20612>
>     (portable GB)
>
>       I use www.libreoffice.org <http://www.libreoffice.org>
>
>     /"Open Source Free Software is a matter of liberty, not price."/
>     https://bitly.com/1gXkUcc
>
>
>     On 20 March 2015 at 22:01, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com
>     <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hi,
>
>         Bottom posting...
>
>         On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Tai Kedzierski
>         <dch.tai at gmail.com <mailto:dch.tai at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             I'll certainly have a look at Chrome problems once we have
>             the basics in place. If I can replicate the issue I /may/
>             be able to solve it, otherwise we need to look at what the
>             problems w other browsers are and if the trade off is
>             worth it.
>
>
>         Thx!
>
>             I should mention privately that I am totally willing to
>             set up this system for them and Partimus, as it is
>             learning exp for me too, and I commit to provide the best
>             result to my abilities;
>
>             However for anything that relates to troubleshooting and
>             tech support outwith the direct project, I am happy to
>             muck in initially, but may have to meet a professional
>             upsell point, or pass the flame... of course, I'll /never/
>             seek to charge anything without prior agreement - keep
>             this paragraph as testament!
>
>         Thanks, we understand that you need to make a living, and we
>         will never expect you to commit to doing volunteer work.  We
>         all are volunteers with jobs, which is why we appreciate your
>         help!
>
>             I'm signing off now as I have started the Friday evening
>             at a party and want to not send inebriated emails...! So
>             please pardon radio silence ...
>
>         heh, enjoy!
>
>             I would be interested in having a quick talk with you over
>             skype or similar, and also with volunteer team on this
>             project - I can set up a Mumble VoIP server if preferable.
>             Twould be evening UTC , morning PST
>
>
>         I can do skype on Tuesday, March 24 at 10 am PST time, which
>         is 5:00 pm Edinburgh time.  Does that work for you?  Thanks!
>
>             --Tai
>
>             // Sent from a mobile device; rogue typos may be lurking
>
>             On 20 Mar 2015 20:50, "Christian Einfeldt"
>             <einfeldt at gmail.com <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Hi,
>
>                 I have gotten some feedback from the teacher, Abigail
>                 Rudner.  She says that she has been having trouble
>                 with the Chrome browser crashing.  I don't know what
>                 that is all about.  Maybe the conflicts that James
>                 Howard experienced between Firefox and iTalc have been
>                 resolved, and maybe we can remove Chrome as she requests:
>
>                 *
>                 **I am currently running:*
>                 Google docs
>                 GIMP
>                 Blue Fish editor (html)
>                 Firefox
>                 Chrome (which crashes a lot and needs to get removed)
>                 *
>                 **It would be great to have:*
>                 3d  modeling software
>                 video editing software
>                 sound editing softwaredrawing software
>
>                 Thanks!
>
>                 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Tai Kedzierski
>                 <dch.tai at gmail.com <mailto:dch.tai at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                     Dear Christian, All,
>
>                     Hello :-)
>
>
>                     I'd like to get the ball rolling first by
>                     outlining what we're actually trying to do. I've
>                     added my notes to the shared document, and below.
>
>                     *@Christian,* please let me know if I've gotten
>                     carried away. As you haven't yet given a wishlist,
>                     I have dreamt one up....!
>
>
>                     At this point in time, the outline points are
>                     educated guesses on my part - I've looked into PXE
>                     and unattended installs in the past, and worked
>                     with some pre-setup ones in past positions, but
>                     not yet had a project goal to work to myself -
>                     hence I am taking this opportunity :-).
>
>                     It may be full of holes.
>
>                     Please do poke those holes and suggest/add any
>                     improvements/changes!
>
>
>                     If anybody has a burning desire to look into any
>                     one Task in particular, maybe let the group
>                     know/put your name next to it so we're not
>                     doubling effort - and of course, add sub/tasks as
>                     you see necessary :-)
>
>
>
>                     I look forward to working on this with you all!
>
>
>
>                     Cheers
>
>                     Tai
>
>
>                     /============
>
>                     Following from my earlier notes, I would like to
>                     suggest attaining the goals outlined below, to wit:
>
>                     ## Goal workflow for workstation install:
>
>                             * teacher inserts CD into machine and
>                     reboots it from said CD
>                             * teacher needs to only click a couple of
>                     times to launch the install process
>                             ---- this may also involve choosing a
>                     network name for the PC
>                             * teacher can remove the CD and walk away,
>                     whilst the PC does its thing on the network
>
>
>                     ## Server install/maintenance
>
>                     Installation of the server may need sending
>                     someone onsite, or we can prepare an image that
>                     the teacher can install, with a post-install
>                     script to finish the job.
>
>                     The server should be able to just run headless and
>                     will probably be in command line mode unless
>                     specified otherwise (who normally performs
>                     maintenance?)
>
>                     System updates may or may not be installed by a
>                     remote technician, or automatically. From a
>                     break-prevention point of view I prefer the former
>                     (or a technician at the school can be trained);
>                     for the school's independence, the latter may be
>                     more relevant.
>
>                     At any rate, since the server is to host a master
>                     image, I'd like to insist that the machine /needs/
>                     keeping up to date and secure from any
>                     non-authorized users in the school, or
>                     super-savvy/curious students :-)
>
>
>                     ###
>
>                     I propose the following deliverables:
>
>                             * An install image with the required
>                     software and very-few-questions-asked
>                             * PXE server serving the image
>                             * Pre-seed file served from PXE server
>                             * PXE server install image itself (in case
>                     the server needs resetting) and/or install procedure
>                             * Delivery on DVDs for archival and
>                     off-Internet purposes
>                             * Hopefully, a full build manual for
>                     future maintainers
>
>                     ###
>
>                     Tasks to attain this, as far as I can see, are:
>
>                     * Create custom "ISO" of target desktop setup
>                     (rather, dir structure for serving over the web)
>                     from Ubuntu server
>                     * Prepare the pre-seed file (which needs to
>                     include installation of Lubuntu desktop) (this is
>                     the workaround I can imagine to get around
>                     Lubuntu's lack of netboot)
>                     * Prepare a PXE server setup
>                     * Prepare an image of the PXE setup (which will
>                     include the contents of the target ISO)
>
>                     ===
>
>                     Resources I've found most relevant so far:
>
>                       * UnattendedInstall CD :
>                         https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/UnattendedCD
>                       * Custom CD incl pre-seed :
>                         https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization
>                       * PXE setup :
>                         https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallServer
>
>
>                     For Lubuntu, this may require using tasksel to
>                     install Lubuntu on top of a server base, as the
>                     std Lubuntu CD does not have the requisite config
>                     files ( /netboot )
>
>                     =============/
>
>
>
>
>                     ===
>                     Tai Kedzierski
>
>                     IT Services Specialist
>                     http://helpuse.com
>                     +44 (0) 7526 963 612
>                     <tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207526%20963%20612> (portable GB)
>
>                       I use www.libreoffice.org
>                     <http://www.libreoffice.org>
>
>                     /"Open Source Free Software is a matter of
>                     liberty, not price."/
>                     https://bitly.com/1gXkUcc
>
>
>                     On 18 March 2015 at 23:01, Christian Einfeldt
>                     <einfeldt at gmail.com <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>>
>                     wrote:
>
>                         Hi everyone,
>
>                         Thanks to everyone for your replies over the
>                         past couple of days about moving forward with
>                         the Ascend Linux lab, and thanks to each of
>                         you for your interest in the project.  I have
>                         gotten some good feedback from you all about
>                         this project, and I greatly appreciate what I
>                         have heard from each of you. I have introduced
>                         each of you in an invitation to the google
>                         docs document, so that you hopefully might
>                         have an idea as to who everyone is. To that
>                         list I will add Jim Stockford, who runs a tech
>                         company called Systemateka.com that provides a
>                         wide array of open source computer solutions.
>                         Jim is one of our leading volunteers in our
>                         lab projects, and has been a major backbone of
>                         our work on our Linux labs in schools.
>
>                         Partimus has always moved forward by relying
>                         on preserving the goodwill of the members of
>                         the projects we work on and as a board all of
>                         our decisions thus far have been unanimous
>                         decisions, as far as I can see.  I think the
>                         fact that our formal votes are unanimous
>                         reflects the fact that we value the input of
>                         each of our participants, and we want to build
>                         consensus and goodwill, rather than focus on
>                         short term outcomes.
>
>                         Partimus also tends to be a do-ocracy, meaning
>                         that people who have the greatest passion and
>                         time for a given project tend to take the
>                         reigns of a project, and the others tend to
>                         support them. So if you see something that
>                         interests you, please feel free to take the
>                         ball and run with it.
>
>                         And so at this time, it appears that Tai
>                         Kedzierski, Mike Rojas, and Jim Stockford have
>                         the kind of time and expertise needed to bring
>                         completion to the PXE bootable .iso project. 
>                         It seems that Elizabeth and Grant have the
>                         expertise, but are slammed with projects at
>                         this time and so might not be among the first
>                         responders on this project; Jim Stockford
>                         describes himself as interested in the PXE
>                         boot project but says that he has not done
>                         such an .iso yet, but thinks he can help out;
>                         and Eric Burke has said that coding is not his
>                         forte but is interested in following the
>                         project and is writing a doctoral thesis on
>                         open source projects; and I absolutely suck at
>                         coding. Please correct me if I have not
>                         correctly stated anyone's interest or
>                         availability correctly, and my apologies in
>                         advance if I have made a mistake.
>
>                         If anyone would like to have an IRC chat about
>                         this project, I am up for that.  Please just
>                         remember that Tai is in Scotland.  The rest of
>                         us are in the San Francisco Bay Area, at least
>                         right now.
>
>                         Eric has found a documentation page that might
>                         be helpful for us in starting out the PXE boot
>                         project:
>
>                         https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallMultiDistro
>
>                         Tai has sent me an email about the Google doc
>                         that I circulated. Elizabeth tells me that doc
>                         is actually for a specialized manual install
>                         .iso, not a PXE-boot .iso, so again my
>                         apologies if I have started us down the wrong
>                         road, and thanks for that correction,
>                         Elizabeth. Here is a link to that Google doc:
>
>                         https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UEgt_fkGUVdANcnZ1W2S5Rv15Hx3S92Ynn9Mui3xB_E/edit?usp=sharing
>
>                         Eric Burke's link above might be a better
>                         starting point, I'm not sure
>
>                         More comments below in response to a recent
>                         email from Tai:
>
>                         On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:21 AM, Tai
>                         Kedzierski <dch.tai at gmail.com
>                         <mailto:dch.tai at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                             Hi Christian
>
>                             Thanks - I wasn't expecting the "League of
>                             Extraordinary Sysadmins" gathering!
>
>                             Good to know there are others who will be
>                             able to provide insight!
>
>                             Rather than muck around in the document
>                             you provided (which has the initial vital
>                             info!) would it be possible you share a
>                             separate empty Google doc to serve as a
>                             collaboration/communication area? I'll
>                             dump the following in it afterwards
>
>
>                         Thanks, Tai.  As I said above, I think I might
>                         have started us off on the wrong document, and
>                         maybe Eric Burke's link would be better?  I
>                         don't know.
>
>                         At any rate, the document that I circulated is
>                         a copy, it is not the original, so if you
>                         would like to add the text below to that
>                         document, it doesn't bother me.  If you would
>                         like to start another google document, that
>                         would be fine as well.
>
>                         More from Tai below:
>
>
>                             ===
>
>
>
>                             I had a quick look at PXE setup yesterday
>                             [2015/03/17] and it seems the
>                             straightforward setup simply serves the
>                             installation media over the network
>                             instead of reducing steps to install -
>                             James's notes seem to align with this, as
>                             in there is customization done but the
>                             teacher still has to manually sit through
>                             the initial install screens (select
>                             languages, accept partitions, choose
>                             various options etc)?
>
>
>                             Probably what we are looking for then is
>                             an "Unattended install"?
>
>                             To that end I wanted to ask what the
>                             intended/acceptable workflow was - when I
>                             was at the University of Edinburgh IT
>                             desk, our workflow for installing was:
>
>                             * Go to physical machine
>                             * Reboot to special CD
>                             * hit enter
>                             * walk away with CD whilst the PC
>                             automatically downloaded from the network
>                             and installed everything
>
>
>
>                             ##
>                             Another issue I encountered was a lack of
>                             netboot/pxeboot.cfg files on the Lubuntu
>                             ISO which might need working around
>                             (though have not yet had time to check if
>                             there are alternative methods).
>
>                             I'm sure there's a straighforward solution
>                             however.
>
>                             ##
>                             I think Machine #3 (P4 @ 1.8 GHz + 500MB
>                             RAM) will be the target candidate for
>                             becoming the server.
>
>
>
>
>                             ===
>                             Tai Kedzierski
>
>                             IT Services Specialist
>                             http://helpuse.com
>                             +44 (0) 7526 963 612
>                             <tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207526%20963%20612>
>                             (portable GB)
>
>                               I use www.libreoffice.org
>                             <http://www.libreoffice.org>
>
>                             /"Open Source Free Software is a matter of
>                             liberty, not price."/
>                             https://bitly.com/1gXkUcc
>
>
>                             On 17 March 2015 at 21:12, Christian
>                             Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com
>                             <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                                 Hi,
>
>                                 thanks for your reply, Tai.  Comments
>                                 in line below....
>
>                                 On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Tai
>                                 Kedzierski <dch.tai at gmail.com
>                                 <mailto:dch.tai at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                                     Hi Christian
>
>                                     I'll see what I can do as fastest
>                                     for this.
>
>
>                                 Thanks so much!
>
>                                     For proper PXE + Customized ISO it
>                                     would require work to integrate it
>                                     all;
>
>                                     However we can break it into PXE
>                                     as first goal; and until ISO
>                                     customization os done, I can
>                                     certainly envisage a fully
>                                     automating script for the rest of
>                                     the installation of custom s.w and
>                                     settings.
>
>                                 Hi, thanks for that info.  I have
>                                 found some of the notes from one of
>                                 our Linux gurus about what he did with
>                                 regard to making a Lubuntu PXE boot
>                                 disc for another teacher.  I have
>                                 invited you to the google doc so that
>                                 you can see it and possibly get a
>                                 little bit of a jump on the project. 
>                                 In the meantime, I am going to try to
>                                 assemble our gurus for a chat about
>                                 the document, either in IRC or
>                                 elsewhere, perhaps even in a chat in
>                                 the document itself.  I have invited
>                                 you to the document, but here is a
>                                 link to it:
>
>                                 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UEgt_fkGUVdANcnZ1W2S5Rv15Hx3S92Ynn9Mui3xB_E/edit?usp=sharing
>
>                                 Here is a link to the summary of the
>                                 Ascend school's Linux lab:
>
>                                 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_s0E7w40zs80yZNrVRqupml6jqADKjD9XoJ3uFkhQMw/edit?usp=sharing
>
>                                     Can you provide them a server to
>                                     serve as core PXE master, or will
>                                     we repurpose a desktop PC to this end?
>
>
>                                 We will be looking for a server, but
>                                 for now, we will probably repurpose a
>                                 desktop machine.
>
>                                     How frequently do they need to do
>                                     installs?
>
>                                 Initially, they will want to flash all
>                                 25 machines. Then it will be a couple
>                                 times a month as the older machines fail.
>
>                                     Are you mostly installing Ubuntu
>                                     derivatives?
>
>
>                                 Yes, that is all that we are doing. 
>                                 We try to use as few distros as
>                                 possible, and one of our board
>                                 members, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph, is
>                                 a Ubuntu Community Council member. 
>                                 Plus Ubuntu has good documentation,
>                                 which is good for a simple end user
>                                 like me.
>                                 Thanks for your interest!
>
>
>
>
>
>                         -- 
>                         Christian Einfeldt
>
>
>
>
>
>                 -- 
>                 Christian Einfeldt
>
>
>
>
>         -- 
>         Christian Einfeldt
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Christian Einfeldt

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